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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:27 am 
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Thanks for the vid. By seeing his protection of the ball with his body that he always put in opposition between the chalenger and the ball, I'd say his BB is higher than 85. He has some Zidane/Riquelme-like ability to do that (Riquelme was obviously less strong though).

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:58 am 
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MagicDip wrote:
Thanks for the vid. By seeing his protection of the ball with his body that he always put in opposition between the chalenger and the ball, I'd say his BB is higher than 85. He has some Zidane/Riquelme-like ability to do that (Riquelme was obviously less strong though).


I bought rare matches of his, because there were barely any videos of him on YouTube, and because people said he was a great passer of the ball; but I have to say, I was left very very impressed by his technique on the ball.... His passing is great too, but I have seen other players who are equally good at passing, it is his technique that I find very unique, I honestly didn't expected such a great player in terms of technique.

I have also seen a lot of Zinedine Zidane (and plan to do a video of him as well), and Zidane although a much more versatile/virtuoso player in terms of technique, cannot "shield" the ball like Valderrama. I'd say Riquelme is on the same level as Valderrama when it comes to shielding the ball, and I'd say Riquelme and Valderrama are the best players I've seen in terms of shielding the ball at walking pace.

Anyways, I still can't quite create an accurate version of Valderrama with the stats that PES offers. I feel the same way about Riquelme, the PES stats aren't precise/specific enough to accurately portray rare players.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:17 am 
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Amateur wrote:
... the PES stats aren't precise/specific enough to accurately portray rare players.


-I agree , but we can try to come as close as possible maybe I will post an experimental set in stats practice , using BB 88/89 , TS 67 ( I think its the default number ) .

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:19 am 
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Quote:
I'd say Riquelme and Valderrama are the best players I've seen in terms of shielding the ball at walking pace


I agree, Zidane was a bit faster than these 2 players but I can tell you that he was strong too, you can particularly see that at the end of his carreer when had less pace/agility (although he had never been really agile) but his ball protection was tremendous.
Pirlo does also the same thing, shielding the ball at walking pace, but he is not a strong player in terms of BB.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:34 am 
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I'd even go for an orange BB number (90) and I agree, his default stats in TS: 67 (default)/68 and ACC: 70 (default)/72.

In fact I'd do a mix of Godoy's suggestion and and his default set, like this:

Attack: 84 (Konami)
Defence: 50 (Godoy, Konami is at 28)
Balance: 90 (My suggestion, Konami is at 78)
Stamina: 81 (A bit less than Godoy's 84, Konami is at 68 lol)
Top Speed: 68 (Konami +1)
Acceleration: 70 (Konami)-72 (My suggestion)
Response: 78 (Konami & Godoy)
Agility: 80 (No clue, this is the Godoy value, konami is at 72)
Dribble Accuracy: 91/92 (Godoy, Konami is at 88)
Dribble Speed: 72-74 (Godoy suggested 74, Konami is at 68)
Short Pass Accuracy: 98 (Konami & Godoy)
Short Pass Speed: 83 (Godoy, Konami is at 82)
Long Pass Accuracy: 89 (Godoy, Konami is at 88)
Long Pass Speed: 80 (Konami & Godoy)
Shot Accuracy: 74 (Konami & Godoy, I think this could reach 75, he finished best scorer of his team in 86 or 87 for example, with 16 or 17 goals)
Shot Power: 79 (Konami & Godoy)
Shot Technique: 79 (Godoy, Konami is at 75)
Free Kick Accuracy: 86 (Konami, Godoy suggested 80)
Curling: 83 (Konami, Godoy suggested 80)
Header: 75 (Godoy, Konami is at 70)
Jump: 75 (Konami, Godoy suggested 73)
Technique: 93 (Godoy, Konami is at 91)
Aggression: 72 (Konami, Godoy suggested 71)
Mentality: 88 (Godoy, Konami is at 86)
Goalkeeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 95 (Godoy, Konami is at 88)

Condition: 6
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 6
Consistency: 6

SPECIAL ABILITIES:
*Tactical Dribble
*Passing
*1-Touch Pass
*Playmaking
*Centre

Classic 10

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:40 am 
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In effect in his early years his scoring record was pretty good if i remember right , but I remember only 1 goal by freekick I rate him at 80/81 and I also have some very different numbers in mind now than whats suggested.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:41 am 
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MagicDip wrote:
Quote:
I'd say Riquelme and Valderrama are the best players I've seen in terms of shielding the ball at walking pace


I agree, Zidane was a bit faster than these 2 players but I can tell you that he was strong too, you can particularly see that at the end of his carreer when had less pace/agility (although he had never been really agile) but his ball protection was tremendous.
Pirlo does also the same thing, shielding the ball at walking pace, but he is not a strong player in terms of BB.


I agree, I think when I mentioned "shield" the real meaning of the context in which I mentioned the word got lost in translation. Yes, Zidane was very strong (and he was also very big as well and not nearly as slow as people seem to remember these days) and was as good as it gets in terms of ball protection, in my opinion. However, what I meant by "shield", is when you got a player like Riquelme for example, not running with the ball, and instead standing there shielding the ball at walking pace, and coming out victorious.

I have seen a lot of matches of Zidane, and *from what I've seen* Zidane had a very consistent tendency of loosing the ball when he tried to protect the ball like Riquelme would. Zidane, in my opinion, was more like Andres Iniesta (but obviously much stronger than Iniesta), a virtuoso player with excellent ball protection skills, but a player who is likely to loose the ball if he tries to do what Riquelme used to do.

Pirlo is the player (from the current generation) who I find is the most similar to Valderrama, but obviously Pirlo can score from free kicks, can score long range goals, and has proven himself at the highest level for well over seven years now. Having said that though, I've never seen Pirlo do some of the things that Valderrama could do.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:48 am 
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Nakayama#9 wrote:
I also have some very different numbers in mind now than whats suggested.


Speak your mind then :D

One precision, I would personnaly use a green STA and a lower Def (in the 40's) but I guess, everybody won't agree...

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:51 am 
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@Amateur,

Unlike Riquelme and Valderrama, Zidane was an "in-movement" player, the 2 south americans were more static. The 2006 Zidane is closer to them in his playstyle, but still more mobile.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Valderrama - 1990-1996
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:01 am 
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MagicDip wrote:
Nakayama#9 wrote:
I also have some very different numbers in mind now than whats suggested.


Speak your mind then :D

One precision, I would personnaly use a green STA and a lower Def (in the 40's) but I guess, everybody won't agree...


I had STA not more than 80 , DEF I had at 35

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So what? I'm the José Mourinho (another one I don't like btw) of PES then: always creating superstars and World champs :D


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